Information technologies by right designate today the engine of development economy. As in South Ural IT industries develop, what problems they face and that prevents the region to become at the level of the Kazan gorod Innopolis — about it conversation of the correspondent "Chelyabinsksegodnya" with the head of LLC "TRIDIVI" Morozov Dimitri.
to 
- Morozov Dimitri, tell your personal story, please, and history of your companies. How you reached life such?
– I from Miass, in 80ye there was years basic chair of MFTI and many school students who was interested in physics and mathematics, attended Physics and Technology faculty school, some kind of training courses for receipt in MFTI. Zaytsev Pawel was one of teachers there. In 1990 I arrived on Physics and Technology faculty, and Zaytsev Pawel in 1992 created company "Papilon". Now, it is one of the largest Russian IT companies. We kept in touch with Zaytsev Pawel.
– Joint venture?
– Yes, that is actually LLC "TRIDIVI" belongs to group of companies "Papilon". "Papilon" is a regional company with a turn more than 1 billion rubles a year, in it 500 people work.
is one of the largest companies the region, as far as I understand?
– Yes, the largest investor, putting in social and economic development the region. The ski resort "Rider" is the Papilona project, the sum of investments there 350 million rubles. One more project – children's science and technology park in Miass.
– And you the affiliated company, respectively?
– Yes. From scratch it is difficult to create such company. Here experience of creation of hi-tech production is necessary. In particular Pavel Zaytsev, group of companies "Papilon" possesses such competences. Company "Papilon" is included in world "four" of companies who offer systems of Biometric technologies for the state level. As for LLC "TRIDIVI", she is the resident, the grantee Skolkovo.
– Money did not plunder?
– Truly (laughs). I think that ours company a successful example for the project Skolkovo. Investments Skolkovo turn into workplaces, into competitive products in the million market , into tax calculations for the region and export revenue. It not fast history. In 2011 we began and only in 2017 began to earn.
– Why such long stage from investments before receiving profit?
– Any IT company is a risk. Any venture investment is a risk, that is it is impossible to foresee success of the enterprise in advance. Therefore without the state support difficult independently to master such projects because investments are required much, and you can receive results not at once.
– And is how many, if not a secret much?
– About 100 million rubles.
– Yes, is the serious sum. And with what big expenses are connected?
– With involvement of highly qualified specialists, with marketing activity. Because if you will not be able to sell, it is necessary for nobody. And costs of marketing assume departures on leading exhibitions abroad. They, by the way, abroad pass everything. That is, it is necessary to incur big expenses before you will start earning money – in it there is a certain risk.
- And in general many the Chelyabinsk companies got grants from Skolkovo?
– is A little, I think. We managed it because we initially unlike the local companies were focused not on the Chelyabinsk or Russian market, and on the international. We showed that we can create product which will be on sale abroad. I lived two years to United States of America and if I did not have this experience, to us it would be much more difficult. Unfortunately, our system of educations does not train experts who are capable to create products in the foreign market.
– Tell our readers, than you are engaged and what product create?
is a programming, development of the software. Actually we develop algorithms which allow cars to distinguish people, namely, Face recognition and gestures.
– I remember at once "KhBox", technology Kinect, it seems?
is our competitor, but ours technology has some advantages before "Kinekt". First of all, it is a krossplatformennost: we support Google Android therefore Microsoft only for Xbox, or is intended for Windows. The second advantage – that we have a line of wireless devices, that is actually this device replaces the computer, the license Windows, Kinect sensor. The set of accessories for Kinect will cost about 340 dollars. Our device is 70 dollars cheaper and the set for the developer will cost 280 dollars.
– That is, this already mass production?
– Yes, at us was experience of independent productions. We in China placed the assembly line, carried out the kraudfandingovy company to United States of America on Indiegogo, collected money on production, made the first party and saw that in production we cannot compete with Chinese. And now we signed with them the agreement, and agreed that we will not compete with each other, and we will cooperate: we — as the supplier of the software, they — as the supplier of iron.
– is good, and can explain, your device — for any user?
– Here too was many mistakes, many different hypotheses we tested. But now we stopped that we work from B2B with the market. Our consumers are developers who do various appendices, such as rehabilitation for hospitals, analytics for advertizing, interactive devices for shopping centers.
– you call absolutely different branches.
– While our clients — it not individual consumers. For example, in Miass, we have a project with children's science and technology park. They do the dancing appendix for rehabilitation of children with limited opportunities of health. On the TV screen the model dances and the child has to repeat movements, study, thus the sensor gives feedback — gives an assessment to actions. Than ours company differs? That we still have Face recognition. On Face recognition we enter ten in the world and in the four - to Russian Federation. This technology does not demand a 3D sensor, it can be in phone, can be in a surveillance camera.
– I so understand, what in the next years there will be simply mass Face recognition?
– Yes, is such interesting market. For example, it is predicted that in 4-5 years of 50% of the airports Face recognition will be equipped with systems. Landing, registration for flight will be carried out without need to show the passport, the car will be able to check that you that person who bought the ticket.
– But after all it is similar to total control, on strengthening of restriction of freedom or you so do not consider?
– Yes, is a good question. It is natural if everything to do it uncontrolledly, there are the risks connected with opportunity to encroach on a freedom of movement of the person. But there are some projects which are capable to solve this problem.
– As far as I know, you pay much attention to training of school students, you have a center for programming.
– I am convinced by
– that region where products the international level can be created. It was the main motivation for Tridivi school creation. The school is focused on children from 7 to 12 years which want to get acquainted with programming. For this purpose we use the Harward techniques. The western open software allows the child to try programming, to take the first step.
– is interesting, not all have abilities.
– Yes, not all become programmers. to
– How many now children at you studies?
– we have two platforms — in Miass and Chelyabinsk, about 60 people in total study. In general the purpose of this program — long-term. Its result — independent development of mobile applications for smartphones.
are children will be able to do?
is belongs to the graduation class of school, that is we understand that the person can independently start working and earning money therefore the market of mobile development, actually, exceeded still a year ago revenue at all movie theaters, that is it is the future industry.
– Tell, and such inhabitant how I, could learn any elements of mobile programming how you consider?
– Now changes much, in general the infrastructure of educations changes, and it is a lot of open online programs that allow beginners at a certain degree of desire, to master professional skills of applications programming. That is, the main thing - desire, and now is a lot of opportunities.
- you intend to select the best pupils and to attach to yourselves or somehow to send them to company?
- No, concerning school students we do not pursue such aim. Our purpose – to provide continuity that about us knew that children through any time could come to us and offer any joint projects. To repeat T.E actually history of our companies.
As for students, here other history. For them the Tridivi school is a School of Computer Sight. It is unique for Chelyabinsk the educational project. At us competition - 10 people into place, we employ the best students. In principle, this school for students works 4 years in Chelyabinsk. And the result of school is level of our development. Four years ago we started being engaged in Face recognition, and now our algorithm is included in the top ten algorithms in the world! All this is created by hands of our Chelyabinsk programmers, yesterday's graduates!
– are Now had conversations on NTI university creation to Russian Federation.
– This university will work on other model, than classical universities. At it the main hypothesis is that the person of 4-6 years does not need to cram that is not required then to the employer. It is the main message. The state invests big money on development NTI university. We too consider that the highest education has to change.
– And our region can participate in it? Probably, at us will open representation of this NTI institute?
– the Region can participate very simply, actually. It has to take resonant subjects about which all speak, and to try to become the center of such technologies. Let's take the city of Zuk in Switzerland which nominated itself for a cryptovalley. Round this city businesses, universities, investors now gather. All there go and about it blow. We such city could have Miass. If, for example, the same platform of a cryptovalley which Technologies blokcheyna try to adapt for the Russian reality there was created, about us would start talking, it would allow the region to be allocated.
– I look that at you both yesterday's students, and present work in companies.
– Yes, many graduates of our HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS do not want to leave the region.
– Why?
– Because is always better than the house.
– were Told by the person who lived two years in America.
– Therefore I also can tell
– is more comfortable and. That is I lived in Moscow 6 years, to United States of America – 2 years, and I see that than opportunity here, in the region, it is more. Much more comfortably when you are in the native environment.
– you have a group of young perspective, talented people. If not secret, what level of their payment? What do you offer, and what offers them the same Microsoft?
– Microsoft, probably, will offer more, naturally. As for us, salaries, say, worthy - comparable with salaries the foreign companies if to compare purchasing power.
– And can call figure?
– we have in principle no restrictions. Actually people earn so much, how many it is necessary.
– you to the competitors as repeatedly spoke, consider Microsoft. There is a question – to you did not suggest to sell business?
– We for the present as though did not grow to such state that to us suggested to sell business.
– And how you as a whole a situation in IT industries, in the region estimate? We have, for example, PUBLIC JOINT-STOCK COMPANY "ROSTELECOM" – the largest IT company, there is own company which from bottoms increased is an Intersvyaz. There is, besides, "Papilon"... How we look in comparison, for example, with Sverdlovsk region?
– Everywhere is the good companies. In Chelyabinsk, maybe, it is less. To Skolkovo, Yekaterinburg 40 residents, in Chelyabinsk – 11. National champions in Yekaterinburg are three companies, and in Chelyabinsk "Papilon" - only. In Ministry of economic development and trade of the Russian Federation selected 60 best companies from all country on prospects of developments, in a series of high technologies. In this program the majority of companies from Moscow, St. Petersburg. What here to speak? We seriously lag behind them.
– And Kazan, Ufa?
– In Kazan too serious projects. One gorod Innopolis that costs. This satellite town — the good environment for programmers. At our youth interest to information technologies only increases, however good experts go to St. Petersburg or to Moscow and do not come back. And Kazan solved this problem unlike our region.
– And you tried to speak about it to the regional authorities, for example?
– Yes, tried, but it does not turn out yet. Reason: or disbelief in the forces, or a lack of ambitions. Creation gorod Innopolis in Kazan was dictated by big desire of the authorities. In our region of such desire, probably, is not present.
– I think, maybe, the situation will change after this publication.
– is good.
– Tell, you besides the main work are engaged in still any public affairs?
– No while time for it does not suffice. We could be engaged in the project of the Technopolis but if on it was political will at the region management. We with pleasure would act as investors, the competences would connect. And with public organizations, I am afraid, we again will rest against a glass ceiling.
– about what I wanted to ask you is again to return to an education question . What you see the future of your children? Where you consider, they should studying and how to study? What profession you would choose for the child?
- I would pay attention to the existing state programs connected with education. It is Sirius, it is NTI university, it is the Olympic Games NTI. I, of course, am the supporter of the IT sphere because here is application points much. It not only programming, it both marketing, and social networks, and advance, that is is a lot of subjects where it is possible to find application for the talents. The main, of course, the moment is a netvorking.
– Communication, acquaintance.
– Yes, communication, acquaintance because it is alone heavy and when a netvorking – you know someone, you understand more, you have opportunity to consult, receive any feedback etc.
- Thanks for interview!
– I from Miass, in 80ye there was years basic chair of MFTI and many school students who was interested in physics and mathematics, attended Physics and Technology faculty school, some kind of training courses for receipt in MFTI. Zaytsev Pawel was one of teachers there. In 1990 I arrived on Physics and Technology faculty, and Zaytsev Pawel in 1992 created company "Papilon". Now, it is one of the largest Russian IT companies. We kept in touch with Zaytsev Pawel.
– Joint venture?
– Yes, that is actually LLC "TRIDIVI" belongs to group of companies "Papilon". "Papilon" is a regional company with a turn more than 1 billion rubles a year, in it 500 people work.
is one of the largest companies the region, as far as I understand?
– Yes, the largest investor, putting in social and economic development the region. The ski resort "Rider" is the Papilona project, the sum of investments there 350 million rubles. One more project – children's science and technology park in Miass.
– And you the affiliated company, respectively?
– Yes. From scratch it is difficult to create such company. Here experience of creation of hi-tech production is necessary. In particular Pavel Zaytsev, group of companies "Papilon" possesses such competences. Company "Papilon" is included in world "four" of companies who offer systems of Biometric technologies for the state level. As for LLC "TRIDIVI", she is the resident, the grantee Skolkovo.
– Money did not plunder?
– Truly (laughs). I think that ours company a successful example for the project Skolkovo. Investments Skolkovo turn into workplaces, into competitive products in the million market , into tax calculations for the region and export revenue. It not fast history. In 2011 we began and only in 2017 began to earn.
– Why such long stage from investments before receiving profit?
– Any IT company is a risk. Any venture investment is a risk, that is it is impossible to foresee success of the enterprise in advance. Therefore without the state support difficult independently to master such projects because investments are required much, and you can receive results not at once.
– And is how many, if not a secret much?
– About 100 million rubles.
– Yes, is the serious sum. And with what big expenses are connected?
– With involvement of highly qualified specialists, with marketing activity. Because if you will not be able to sell, it is necessary for nobody. And costs of marketing assume departures on leading exhibitions abroad. They, by the way, abroad pass everything. That is, it is necessary to incur big expenses before you will start earning money – in it there is a certain risk.
- And in general many the Chelyabinsk companies got grants from Skolkovo?
– is A little, I think. We managed it because we initially unlike the local companies were focused not on the Chelyabinsk or Russian market, and on the international. We showed that we can create product which will be on sale abroad. I lived two years to United States of America and if I did not have this experience, to us it would be much more difficult. Unfortunately, our system of educations does not train experts who are capable to create products in the foreign market.
– Tell our readers, than you are engaged and what product create?
is a programming, development of the software. Actually we develop algorithms which allow cars to distinguish people, namely, Face recognition and gestures.
– I remember at once "KhBox", technology Kinect, it seems?
is our competitor, but ours technology has some advantages before "Kinekt". First of all, it is a krossplatformennost: we support Google Android therefore Microsoft only for Xbox, or is intended for Windows. The second advantage – that we have a line of wireless devices, that is actually this device replaces the computer, the license Windows, Kinect sensor. The set of accessories for Kinect will cost about 340 dollars. Our device is 70 dollars cheaper and the set for the developer will cost 280 dollars.
– That is, this already mass production?
– Yes, at us was experience of independent productions. We in China placed the assembly line, carried out the kraudfandingovy company to United States of America on Indiegogo, collected money on production, made the first party and saw that in production we cannot compete with Chinese. And now we signed with them the agreement, and agreed that we will not compete with each other, and we will cooperate: we — as the supplier of the software, they — as the supplier of iron.
– is good, and can explain, your device — for any user?
– Here too was many mistakes, many different hypotheses we tested. But now we stopped that we work from B2B with the market. Our consumers are developers who do various appendices, such as rehabilitation for hospitals, analytics for advertizing, interactive devices for shopping centers.
– you call absolutely different branches.
– While our clients — it not individual consumers. For example, in Miass, we have a project with children's science and technology park. They do the dancing appendix for rehabilitation of children with limited opportunities of health. On the TV screen the model dances and the child has to repeat movements, study, thus the sensor gives feedback — gives an assessment to actions. Than ours company differs? That we still have Face recognition. On Face recognition we enter ten in the world and in the four - to Russian Federation. This technology does not demand a 3D sensor, it can be in phone, can be in a surveillance camera.
– I so understand, what in the next years there will be simply mass Face recognition?
– Yes, is such interesting market. For example, it is predicted that in 4-5 years of 50% of the airports Face recognition will be equipped with systems. Landing, registration for flight will be carried out without need to show the passport, the car will be able to check that you that person who bought the ticket.
– But after all it is similar to total control, on strengthening of restriction of freedom or you so do not consider?
– Yes, is a good question. It is natural if everything to do it uncontrolledly, there are the risks connected with opportunity to encroach on a freedom of movement of the person. But there are some projects which are capable to solve this problem.
– As far as I know, you pay much attention to training of school students, you have a center for programming.
– I am convinced by
– that region where products the international level can be created. It was the main motivation for Tridivi school creation. The school is focused on children from 7 to 12 years which want to get acquainted with programming. For this purpose we use the Harward techniques. The western open software allows the child to try programming, to take the first step.
– is interesting, not all have abilities.
– Yes, not all become programmers. to
– How many now children at you studies?
– we have two platforms — in Miass and Chelyabinsk, about 60 people in total study. In general the purpose of this program — long-term. Its result — independent development of mobile applications for smartphones.
are children will be able to do?
is belongs to the graduation class of school, that is we understand that the person can independently start working and earning money therefore the market of mobile development, actually, exceeded still a year ago revenue at all movie theaters, that is it is the future industry.
– Tell, and such inhabitant how I, could learn any elements of mobile programming how you consider?
– Now changes much, in general the infrastructure of educations changes, and it is a lot of open online programs that allow beginners at a certain degree of desire, to master professional skills of applications programming. That is, the main thing - desire, and now is a lot of opportunities.
- you intend to select the best pupils and to attach to yourselves or somehow to send them to company?
- No, concerning school students we do not pursue such aim. Our purpose – to provide continuity that about us knew that children through any time could come to us and offer any joint projects. To repeat T.E actually history of our companies.
As for students, here other history. For them the Tridivi school is a School of Computer Sight. It is unique for Chelyabinsk the educational project. At us competition - 10 people into place, we employ the best students. In principle, this school for students works 4 years in Chelyabinsk. And the result of school is level of our development. Four years ago we started being engaged in Face recognition, and now our algorithm is included in the top ten algorithms in the world! All this is created by hands of our Chelyabinsk programmers, yesterday's graduates!
– are Now had conversations on NTI university creation to Russian Federation.
– This university will work on other model, than classical universities. At it the main hypothesis is that the person of 4-6 years does not need to cram that is not required then to the employer. It is the main message. The state invests big money on development NTI university. We too consider that the highest education has to change.
– And our region can participate in it? Probably, at us will open representation of this NTI institute?
– the Region can participate very simply, actually. It has to take resonant subjects about which all speak, and to try to become the center of such technologies. Let's take the city of Zuk in Switzerland which nominated itself for a cryptovalley. Round this city businesses, universities, investors now gather. All there go and about it blow. We such city could have Miass. If, for example, the same platform of a cryptovalley which Technologies blokcheyna try to adapt for the Russian reality there was created, about us would start talking, it would allow the region to be allocated.
– I look that at you both yesterday's students, and present work in companies.
– Yes, many graduates of our HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS do not want to leave the region.
– Why?
– Because is always better than the house.
– were Told by the person who lived two years in America.
– Therefore I also can tell
– is more comfortable and. That is I lived in Moscow 6 years, to United States of America – 2 years, and I see that than opportunity here, in the region, it is more. Much more comfortably when you are in the native environment.
– you have a group of young perspective, talented people. If not secret, what level of their payment? What do you offer, and what offers them the same Microsoft?
– Microsoft, probably, will offer more, naturally. As for us, salaries, say, worthy - comparable with salaries the foreign companies if to compare purchasing power.
– And can call figure?
– we have in principle no restrictions. Actually people earn so much, how many it is necessary.
– you to the competitors as repeatedly spoke, consider Microsoft. There is a question – to you did not suggest to sell business?
– We for the present as though did not grow to such state that to us suggested to sell business.
– And how you as a whole a situation in IT industries, in the region estimate? We have, for example, PUBLIC JOINT-STOCK COMPANY "ROSTELECOM" – the largest IT company, there is own company which from bottoms increased is an Intersvyaz. There is, besides, "Papilon"... How we look in comparison, for example, with Sverdlovsk region?
– Everywhere is the good companies. In Chelyabinsk, maybe, it is less. To Skolkovo, Yekaterinburg 40 residents, in Chelyabinsk – 11. National champions in Yekaterinburg are three companies, and in Chelyabinsk "Papilon" - only. In Ministry of economic development and trade of the Russian Federation selected 60 best companies from all country on prospects of developments, in a series of high technologies. In this program the majority of companies from Moscow, St. Petersburg. What here to speak? We seriously lag behind them.
– And Kazan, Ufa?
– In Kazan too serious projects. One gorod Innopolis that costs. This satellite town — the good environment for programmers. At our youth interest to information technologies only increases, however good experts go to St. Petersburg or to Moscow and do not come back. And Kazan solved this problem unlike our region.
– And you tried to speak about it to the regional authorities, for example?
– Yes, tried, but it does not turn out yet. Reason: or disbelief in the forces, or a lack of ambitions. Creation gorod Innopolis in Kazan was dictated by big desire of the authorities. In our region of such desire, probably, is not present.
– I think, maybe, the situation will change after this publication.
– is good.
– Tell, you besides the main work are engaged in still any public affairs?
– No while time for it does not suffice. We could be engaged in the project of the Technopolis but if on it was political will at the region management. We with pleasure would act as investors, the competences would connect. And with public organizations, I am afraid, we again will rest against a glass ceiling.
– about what I wanted to ask you is again to return to an education question . What you see the future of your children? Where you consider, they should studying and how to study? What profession you would choose for the child?
- I would pay attention to the existing state programs connected with education. It is Sirius, it is NTI university, it is the Olympic Games NTI. I, of course, am the supporter of the IT sphere because here is application points much. It not only programming, it both marketing, and social networks, and advance, that is is a lot of subjects where it is possible to find application for the talents. The main, of course, the moment is a netvorking.
– Communication, acquaintance.
– Yes, communication, acquaintance because it is alone heavy and when a netvorking – you know someone, you understand more, you have opportunity to consult, receive any feedback etc.
- Thanks for interview!